Interview: Sublimatio Mortis (Written)
Released on December 20th, 2024, via Cyclic Law, ‘Transubstantiatio’ is the debut album from the enigmatic Canadian duo Sublimatio Mortis, featuring Chris of Undirheimar & Mo Masaya de Kemet. A profound auditory journey into the sacred and the unseen. Born out of introspection during a silent retreat at a Benedictine monastery, the duo channels the spiritual intensity of monastic life into a transcendent exploration of sound and vibration. In this interview we learn more about the duo, their process, and the work that went into creating ‘Transubstantiatio’.
1. Hello. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. Firstly, how are you and how is the vibe in Sublimatio Mortis right now?
Thank you for this opportunity to express ourselves to your readers.
We are fine, thank you. Our “vibe”, assuming you inquire about our state of mind at the present, is good and positive. Although there is a constant form of inner-struggle at work. But that is something we are quite familiar with. Life puts challenges in front of us and we must overcome them. We are tested in various ways. Yet, these inner turmoil, be they small or overwhelming do serve their purpose within Sublimatio Mortis.
Since the foundation of Sublimatio Mortis over 2 years ago, we both had many hard moments and transformations which not only strengthened us mentally and spiritually, but solidified our brotherhood as well. We each have our own backgrounds as far as occult and esoteric experience and ritual work is concerned, but being together in this project helped us to better understand not only each other but ourselves as well. We can even say our way of working on our particular paths have changed from this. We are more in tune with each other. Filling up gaps and understanding what first appeared as differences, but in fact, were merely differences in terminology. Sublimatio Mortis made speaking of otherwise complicated esoteric matter more easy between us. No ego trying to prove to the other any higher level of knowledge. Our sound ritual work serves, amongst other things, to sever the ego.
Since we first met in the early 90s, we haven’t seen each other for nearly 35 years, yet within 2 years since we formed Sublimatio Mortis, we built a relationship based on intellectual exchange, arts, crafts, esoteric matters and simple friendship. Something not always easy to find these days.
2. When you reflect on 2024, are you satisfied with what you have been able to accomplish this year?
Yes and no. We are very pleased of Transubstantiatio being released finally after over a year of work, but at the same time, that long period which was not always easy, slowed us down for other things. Still, we have other sound offerings that have been recorded in the meanwhile and should be available in 2025. Not all our time was lost.
3. What have been some of your highlights?
Certainly this new album on Cyclic Law for what people can actually see, because internally, the year was still very creative for us.
4. ‘Transubstantiatio’ – December 20th via Cyclic Law. An incredible undertaking. Talk to me about your vision for this record. What did the early stages look like and how clear was it?
Clarity was never at the source of this sound offering. Well, not clarity as linked to the album’s conception goes. We did not really start this album as much as this album manifested itself to us when the time seemed proper. Although we do work consciously on various elements of an album like cover art, overall imagery etc, the initial spark, that illumination which comes to us with the realization that this particular “theme” will be that of our new album, comes without warning.
If a beginning there was, we would place it during our silent retreat in a local Benedictine monastery (or Abbay if you will) some hours away in the countryside. An old medieval-castle type building which immediately inspire both awe and humility at first glance. That which most people refer to as “silence” pales in comparison with the form of silence which resides therein. To the profane ear, silence is merely the absence of noise. It is what you hear when no one is speaking. Which is no-sound, yet, at some deeper levels, it is nonetheless not what the Gnostics refer to as “Sige” (greek for silence). This is the silent aspect of the divine. The quiet stillness of the primordial no-thing-ness from which all originated.
This “form” of silence is not necessarily that of non-hearing any sounds, but of intrinsic inner stillness. It is a transcendent silence, a contemplative one. Within the walls of such locations as this Abbey we were in, one can tune in into that silent current, if you will. Yes it is a place of silence because of its very nature and the purpose it serves but beyond that apparent “silence” which all find within these bricked walls, long arched corridors and high pointed towers is that Sige which breathes and pulsates on the edge of perception. It is a fertile ground for sacred alchemical inner workings, which is also the basis of Transubstantiatio.
From this fertile and silent ground an emotion was born, and this connection was imprinted within the concept as a form of vibration. The sort which can only emerge from this fertile ground. It was immediately clear that the album would be worked in a different way compared to our first offering “Mantras of Inner Calcination’’. The album had to be a complete journey in itself and had to be imbued with the clarity that can only emerge from the abyss within. For us, each recording must be given life in a totally immersive manner which befits our concept and thus, the work itself becomes initiatory. Transubstantiatio made this point even more. So obviously the recordings are intense and have a spiritual effect on ourselves which can often be very demanding. They are sometimes like a mirror which sends us back directly into a form of descent into ourselves, and this state occurs from the moment of composition to mixing, thus, upon completion of our work, it all make sense for us and this ritual leaves its ripple effect long afterward like that from a stone thrown into the still waters.
5. Did early inspiration come easily and where did you initially draw ideas from?
As mentioned above, inspiration was slowly given form in our subconscious while we were at the Abbay. We were simply not aware of it taking shape on subtler levels. And that is a perfect way, in our conception of sacred creativity, to channel divine inspiration. It comes to you at proper time. Nothing forced out.
6. As the process went further along, and you went deeper, how in control did you feel?
The purpose is NOT to be “in control”. Man is constantly in need of control. Control of his finances. Control of his woman. Control of his children. Of his work schedule, his free time with friends, his emotions. His life. Of course, we live in an age of control, uncertainties and stress. Having control helps many to feel secure and not worry about anything, but we are not in agreement with this view on life. And we must insist on the difference between control and routine. Some people have a daily scheduled routine which is very regular and pre-organised. That is no problem in itself. A regular work shift etc. This requires no “control”, it just flows as planned. Having a daily ritual/contemplative moment each day is not control. It is discipline. And if done with proper devotion and intent, it is not “habit”. It is a sacred time used for a sacred purpose. Not a blind and automatic “controlled” act of devotion-less, repetitive gesticulation.
Magic, just like various forms of devotional work, is not always about pre-determined, controlled actions under a controlling mind. Yes, some operations in the field of Ceremonial Magick require a certain level of focus and actions which do require some “control” over one’s use of particular ritual tools, a precise lexicon and so forth, but still, much of the mystical experiences the magister will be subjected to have nothing to do with control. Feeling in control is not always the proper path to take. Many of the most reputed mystics like Jean de la Croix and Teresa of Àvila had mystical episodes which were almost violent as to the unpredictability and sheer intensity of their experiences. Control was absolutely out of the equation. And trying to control the experience is as futile as it is foolish.
The Desert Fathers constantly reminds us that to stray from the path is the proper path-less way to venture forth into the interior desert. Where one does not loses his way, but finds himself. Just like the Compostelle. One does not travel the Compostelle, you make a pilgrimage of it. You follow a path which is “not a path”, but an initiatic experience. You do not control that experience, you let go. Let go of expectations, doubts, fears, attachments, let go of it all.
No. We did not seek any control over the fire that slowly took life within our hearts and spirits as we walked silently those long arched corridors at night. Losing ourselves in the fathomless quiet of that place, we were oblivious that the foundations of Transubstantiatio were slowly taking shape.
7. Explain what you are trying to express with this record, in particular, the monastic experience?
This is the part where your readers must really pay close attention to what we are attempting to convey, and, read beyond the simple words.
Transubstantiatio expresses not as much as it presents our understanding of the Eucharistic ritual of Transubstantiation. This rite was initially performed by the Mythraic cults some 1000 years prior to the popular version of “the last supper” where Christ partakes of his blood and body transmuted from wine and bread. This Holy Communion taken in its first degree serves to strengthen the bonds between Christ and Christians. To unite with him. That is the basic understanding of Christians who read the bible as it is; word for word. There is no actual transformation of wine or bread other than in symbolism.
Samael Aun Weor wrote:
In order to understand the Bible, one needs to be a Gnostic, because the Bible is a highly symbolic book, and if we try to read it in the Protestant style, like one who reads newspaper columns, we fall into the most terrible absurdities.
To re-integrate the First Principle as One in unifying with our “Christic” essence is what this most sacred ritual actually represents. The light-presence, is what the true meaning of the Christos represents. The “spirit of thruth”. A truth which lies within us all. Which we are not separated from. What this Tansubstantiation ritual represents is the realization of that light-presence within ourselves. Christ is not one single individual, it is more akin to a state of being. The Christ consciousness is what is otherwise known as “salvation”, greatly misunderstood as merely begging for acceptance into heaven by the forgiveness of our sins, true salvation is the realization of our true Oneness thus, elevating our Christ Consciousness. Transmuting from one level to another.
In alchemical terms we say that Christus is also crystal and that the crystal is the one that allows light to pass through without any resistance. By this example things are thus illustrated but let us also remember that the term “light” has a much deeper meaning than that which we know and refer to as this mundane light. This light we speak of is not perceptible by the human sense of sight in this reality. In this, we can understand that by upon reaching a certain degree of purity things become clearer and thus we can perceive the spark that animates all things. He who, even for a brief moment, achieves this Christ consciousness sees the veil lifted and a deeper vision of things, therefore liberated, is revealed to him. Through bread and wine we also see great alchemical revelations and a happy marriage between the 2 extremes. Wine itself teaches the secret of resurrection through putrefaction in the right setting. The wine having become more subtle and volatile than the raw material which was the raison and its juice. This beverage is the result of the conversion that death can bring.
As for this “monastic” experience you refer to, you mean the overall ambiance of the album? When we speak of monastic or monasticism in our references to Sublimatio Mortis, it is not in any disrespect to the vocation of course, the more so since we have a good understanding its meaning and purpose when it comes to a certain ascetic way of living one’s spiritual life. Monasticism is clearly not for everyone. There are various traditions of monastic lifestyles depending on which Order one belongs to, but among the main characteristics of monastic life is that of silence and self imposed isolation/reclusion. This can be both physically and spiritually. Meaning, we both have our own personal lives with family and friends, but, we still willingly seek out occasional self reclusion, whether by silent retreats in this Benedictine monastery we mentioned earlier, or out in the woods or even in our own homes. These times within our “cells” are necessary in order to deepen the contemplative work required for our respective spiritual paths.
We also understand our “imagery” is quite reminiscent of this, but again, this is all done in respect of the vocation, especially since we do have some form of interaction with monks at the monastery we go to. We see a great difference between monks and priests. All this transpires into our work both in atmosphere and visual in quite a natural way.
8. Is it fair to say that this record is a spiritual experience for you? If yes, describe that feeling. If no, why not?
It is quite fair indeed. This album was as much a spiritual experience in its creation/recording as it was in its un-manifested form before we even realised we were having this spiritual experience back at the monastery. And that is the very essence of such an experience; not consciously realising it. It just stirred something within us; that sojourn in that monastery. Seeking a silent retreat to lose ourselves (others would say centering) and come out inspired with what became an album. It is no meager thing. To us anyway. An album concept which comes to mind in such a way cannot be just another album to record.
There is something much more subtle to the manner which Transubstantiatio came to be. For the inspiration came to us both, as we were within ourselves “separately” at the Abbay. Not talking to each other. Each in our own little inner (occasionally outer) cell. Yet, when we started exposing our thoughts and impressions of the experience, we found ourselves connected in many ways. And the creation of the album flowed as easily as spring water.
But it is not really a “feeling”. Such experiences are no easy thing to describe with words. Words often lose their original unspoken meaning when uttered. They lose a part of their unspoken sacredness. No. As far as this spiritual experience moved us at more personal levels, we will keep that for ourselves.
9. How confident were you that what you wanted to express, particularly the ritualistic approach to sound and vibration, would be felt and understood by the listener?
We were everything but confident that anyone would understand what we were trying to convey through sound and vibrations. It is always a challenge to put to audible form something that has no actual “sound”. A concept. An understanding of a mystical experience. How to properly put that into sonic frequencies and resonance for an audience to hear? But ultimately, we do this for ourselves. To exteriorize it and breathe life into our sacred creation. Of course we have to write down some form of text to elaborate (we do not like the term: explain) on it as a minimum requirement for people to grasp at least some minute part of our work. We chose to do so though it is truly not necessary. We could well keep everything to ourselves and we would also be quite content with it, but we try to not be overly hermetic. Without going too much into endless details and explanations, we reveal the foundations from which most individuals, that have some form of understanding of the Gnostic mysteries, will be able to navigate with some guidance through the dark labyrinth of deeper mysteries.
10. Speaking of the listener, what do you hope they take away from this album once heard?
What the listener will get as far as an inner experience from listening to our Art is entirely up to him to find out. We do not expect anything from those who listen to what we do. Just as we do not expect anything about anything quite frankly. Expectations are the ravenous worms which gnaw at the roots of a grand and splendid tree. They may be small things, insignificant, but so many of them can eat the life out of anything majestic by attacking its foundations. The strongest castle can crumble down when its boulders start do deteriorate from mere water penetration and lime.
We have had good responses from listeners from our previous work as well as this new offering, and it is pleasant that our “music” provokes certain experiences. Some have expressed certain altered state of consciousness while listening to our work. That is good. Our offerings are surely not for entertainment purposes. Some reviewers, and many listeners as well, seemed to have understood the deeper esoteric underlying elements of our sonic ritual art. That we are not merely creating any a form of “dark ambient”. That is not what we strive for. Sublimatio Mortis is not interested in “making anyone experience anything”. It either happens or it doesn’t. And both results are good. Not everyone experiences our sound the in same manner. Not everyone response to certain frequencies and lower tones and vibrations the same way. Again, our goal is not to “please”, but to exteriorize certain concepts and our own personal experiences combined, into one sonic ritual sigil which you can listen to.
If, by our work, certain people can experience deeper states of consciousness, travel to sub or upper levels or reach more profound levels of contemplative moments, then it is all good. If one simply enjoys the sound because is it overall very “dark” and ominous (although the very core of our work is illumination) it is also good. Who are we to expect anything from anyone. Simply listen.
11. What would success for this record look like for you?
The word “success” has neither importance nor true meaning for us. What is successful? An album that sells at 500 000 copies? That makes the band popular to the world? That fills one’s pockets with all the royalties of merchandise sales?
Nothing. Frivolous. Impermanent!
Each achievement is itself a success for the simple fact that it passes from the subtle worlds to the physical world and is thus manifested. Then it comes down to people’s own personal perception. The success of Sublimatio Mortis is simply to be able to transmute death and to bring it to the creative level so that the listener can then perceive it in his own way and experience it in his own inner temple.
12. Looking ahead to 2025. What’s a realistic goal you’d like to achieve next year?
A first vinyl release perhaps. We do not require monumental achievements neither ask for any in truth. Achievements can vary greatly from one man to another or one band to another. We do have various works in preparation which might be released in 2025 if all goes well. But talks of a first vinyl release with a label is in discussion and since we are rather lovers of old school physical releases (we are not into purely digital releases. This feel empty, not “real” to us) that alone would make our 2025 year. But, time will tell. If all goes smoothly, we would have perhaps as much as 3 albums out in 2025. On various labels.
More live ritual performances are in the planning as well. This coming year should be an active one.
Links
Bandcamp | Facebook | Instagram | Cyclic Law
